[IBL] IBL Range Ratings

Tue Mar 27 10:52:04 EDT 2018

Chris,

Trust me, I am in no way complaining about the ratings.  I long ago
realized that they are what they are to make the game as enjoyable and
realistic as possible.  I'm more in the camp of attempting to understand
what metrics are used to grade something like fielding range.  Error rating
seems more obvious and explainable, but range.  There's a subjective value
that seems at play which may or may not be accurate.  And I used Machado as
an example only because of his highlight reel defensive play (Arenado
too).  I could have used outfielders just as easily.  Adam Jones, for
example, has a reputation for having great range.  Every broadcast, it's
how Jones can play so shallow because of his instincts and range (he ain't
no Paul Blair so I wish Mike Bordick would quit making that comparison).
Anyways, Jones is a G range.  Middle of the pack or worse.  Derek Jeter is
another good example.  He won Gold Gloves (a purely BS award based on
nothing more than popularity) due to reputation and not actual fielding.

If I better understand the origins of the ratings, I'll be better able to
yell at Elvis Andrus when he botches another double play for me. :)

Thanks again

Doug/BAL

On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Chris Hartjes <chartjes at littlehart.net>
wrote:

> I know Sean will do the longer explanation and I don't want to
> misrepresent anything he says, but having been involved with Sean as the
> other person who has done a bunch of work on the game I thought I would add
> my thoughts.
>
> Every single season we have people who feel that one of their players got
> an undeserved rating on defense. Usually this is because they have bought
> into a reputation-based narrative for that player's skill. Just because a
> player makes some plays that end up on a highlight reel doesn't mean they
> are a great defender. Derek Jeter is the perfect example -- his "run to the
> right and make the jump throw" overshadowed his inability to get any ball
> hit to his left. Yet he won gold gloves because people remember the jump
> throw.
>
> Also, if we are being realistic, over the course of a season, how many
> more plays do you think Arenado will make at 3B in the IBL as opposed to
> Machado? 10? 50? I have no idea.
>
> We strive to try and create a game where we represent the proper talent
> level of a player. Defensive ratings are hard because we don't really have
> an idea of how much noise goes into the ratings:
>
> * defensive shifts
> * how individual teams position their fielders outside of shifts
> * how do players adjust for having "good" or "bad" fielders beside them
> * impact of different surfaces at stadiums
> * players hiding injuries that impact their play
>
> If it wouldn't cause endless complaining, I'd be okay with us modifying
> the ratings for range to be what Sean initially shares with us before the
> finely-grained ones come out. Having (to use a made-up example) Billy
> Hamilton be a "great" defender in CF causes less problems than arguing if
> he should be a C or a D.
>
> --
>   Chris Hartjes
>   chartjes at littlehart.net
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018, at 9:20 AM, Doug Palmer wrote:
>
>
> I address this to all the IBL’ers as there may be one of you out there
> with insight into my query.  I was going to address this only to Sean and
> Rusty as I’m sure they’re the ones with the answers, but perhaps there are
> others out there who have asked the same question in the past.
>
> My question involves the range rating for the players and how they are
> determined.  Maybe it’s because “range” is hard to objectively define,
> but when I watch a game, there are certain players who seem to have a
> reputation to be able to get to EVERYTHING hit their way, Nolan Arenado and
> Manny Machado for example, are always on Sportcenter highlights getting to
> balls that seem impossible to get to.  We’ve all seen the shots of
> Arenado diving to a ball deep in the hole and gunning a runner out, or
> Manny so far into foul territory that he’s practically in the dugout, yet
> nails the guy at first.  But that doesn’t translate to this game for some
> reason.  Arenado is a C range player and Manny is a D.
>
> Now, relatively speaking, Arenado seems to be the best fielding 3B in the
> IBL (range wise). His 8/C rating at third really doesn’t seem to be beat.
> So I headed on over to Fangraphs and looked at defensive metrics from last
> year.  First, I wanted to look at UZR (ultimate zone rating) which is one
> of the metrics that stats guys use to determine defensive prowess.  And I
> get the following:
>
>
> UZR shows that Anthony Rendon with his 13.6 rating is FAR better than
> Nolan Arenado.  But Rendon is a 9/D thirdbaseman and Arenado is a 8/C.  Arenado
> has a better range, so UZR can’t be the metric.  So I next looked at RngR
> which seems to be a metric as to how many runs a fielder saves by getting
> to balls in his vicinity.  And again, Rendon is far and away the best:
>
>
>
>
>
> I looked at defensive WAR, Error Runs (ErrR) and nothing that puts Arenado
> ahead of Rendon.  So then I looked at more 3B to see if any pattern arose
> and I couldn’t.  The following players have a D range at 3B: Machado,
> Rendon, Donaldson, Freese and *Jace Peterson* to name but a few.  Jace
> Peterson?  He’s not even on any of these lists, but he’s a D range 3B.  Granted
> Jace is a part time player and would have a limited sample size, but here
> are his defensive numbers:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> So I’m confused.  And if anyone knows how range is handled in PtP/IBL, I
> sure would be curious to know.  And I apologize for the long email.  I
> tried to be as brief as possible J
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Doug Palmer
>
>
> Baltimore Sand Crabs
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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