<div>As a now-outsider I have been watching this and realized the system actually works pretty well. </div><div><br></div><div>Except for one short burst of revenge protests about a decade ago that was quickly put down this only seems to flair up in some minor way once every few years. Hard feelings will fade after a few weeks. </div><div><br></div><div>I have seen many mostly ok systems blow up when people spend time fighting about the process. I would urge you guys to table this for a month and if people feel strongly about it then, someone can start a thought process to develop a concrete proposal. I suspect everyone will decide the problem isn't as big as it feels right now. </div><div><br></div><div>And if you guys want me to shut up, consider it done. I'm done talking on this having said my piece. </div><div><br></div><div>Kevin</div><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div>On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 9:10 AM Larry Selleck via Members <<a href="mailto:members@lists.ibl.org">members@lists.ibl.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div>Hello,</div><div><br></div><div id="m_3596030000734492309yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1493792365711_11785">Could someone please indicate how many protests there have been in the past season (checking how much of an issue this actually is)? What is proposed below would pretty much stop all protests, except in the case of the most extreme cases (i.e. Kershaw for a #5). If that is the goal, then wouldn't it be easier to simply outlaw protests? The argument that most trades happen between experienced managers is a very popular one so why not just leave it to whomever can negotiate the better deal?</div><div id="m_3596030000734492309yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1493792365711_11787"><br></div><div id="m_3596030000734492309yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1493792365711_11789">The other consequence is that to gather enough teams to join in a protest would effectively require the protest to be a public forum, which would flood our emails with more petty personal attacks (there were no personal attacks in the instance of a recent protest, but it has happened in the past) by managers who feel slighted because someone had a different opinion ... and if that was the case, then why not put a protested trade up to league vote, requiring a minimum number of teams to participate to be a forum (half or 2/3) and then a % pass to uphold ... probably too time consuming, but an option.</div><div id="m_3596030000734492309yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1493792365711_11789"><br></div><div id="m_3596030000734492309yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1493792365711_11789">Larry</div><div class="m_3596030000734492309qtdSeparateBR" id="m_3596030000734492309yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1493792365711_11791"><br><br></div><div class="m_3596030000734492309yahoo_quoted" id="m_3596030000734492309yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1493792365711_11517" style="display:block"> <div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:13px" id="m_3596030000734492309yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1493792365711_11516"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,Sans-Serif;font-size:16px" id="m_3596030000734492309yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1493792365711_11515"> <div id="m_3596030000734492309yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1493792365711_11514"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="m_3596030000734492309yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1493792365711_11519"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Russell Peltz via Members <<a href="mailto:members@lists.ibl.org" target="_blank">members@lists.ibl.org</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Matt Sivertson <<a href="mailto:mattsivertson@gmail.com" target="_blank">mattsivertson@gmail.com</a>>; Sean Sweda <<a href="mailto:sweda@ibl.org" target="_blank">sweda@ibl.org</a>> <br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> IBL Members <<a href="mailto:members@lists.ibl.org" target="_blank">members@lists.ibl.org</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, 2 May 2017, 22:16<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [IBL] idea for a new protest process<br> </font> </div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div class="m_3596030000734492309yahoo_quoted" id="m_3596030000734492309yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1493792365711_11517" style="display:block"><div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:13px" id="m_3596030000734492309yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1493792365711_11516"><div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,Sans-Serif;font-size:16px" id="m_3596030000734492309yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1493792365711_11515"> <div class="m_3596030000734492309y_msg_container"><br><div id="m_3596030000734492309yiv1256607250"><div><div style="font-family:courier new,courier,monaco,monospace,sans-serif;font-size:medium"><div><div>I would welcome any ideas to improving the review process, and I like Sean's ideas.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>We used to have terrible arguments all the time about teams tanking games for draft position, and we implemented a good system that solved the problem. I think we could do the same thing with the trade protest system.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Also, there isn't anything in the Constitution about what threshold of imbalance a deal needs to meet to be overturned. We could add some guidelines.<br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>-Rusty</div><div><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div class="m_3596030000734492309yiv1256607250yqt5127342012" id="m_3596030000734492309yiv1256607250yqt41028"><div class="m_3596030000734492309yiv1256607250ydp18624d53ydp2ae58166yahoo_quoted" id="m_3596030000734492309yiv1256607250ydp18624d53ydp2ae58166yahoo_quoted_4496012228"><div>On Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 1:52:55 PM PDT, Matt Sivertson <<a href="mailto:mattsivertson@gmail.com" target="_blank">mattsivertson@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><div><div id="m_3596030000734492309yiv1256607250ydp18624d53ydp2ae58166yiv2584137517"><div><div>I think something like this would be useful as well, and I like the idea of the collateral going down when more owners are involved. One other thing I'd like to see is more formalized guidance to the review board about how to evaluate these trades and what should constitute a trade worthy of being overturned. I might be mistaken but I don't think we have any formal criteria for that and it's pretty much just if the board wants to overturn it they do, and if they don't then they don't.</div><div class="m_3596030000734492309yiv1256607250ydp18624d53ydp2ae58166yiv2584137517yqt1272672017" id="m_3596030000734492309yiv1256607250ydp18624d53ydp2ae58166yiv2584137517yqt18147"><div class="m_3596030000734492309yiv1256607250ydp18624d53ydp2ae58166yiv2584137517gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><div class="m_3596030000734492309yiv1256607250ydp18624d53ydp2ae58166yiv2584137517gmail_quote">On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 1:25 PM, Sean Sweda <span><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:sweda@ibl.org" target="_blank">sweda@ibl.org</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="m_3596030000734492309yiv1256607250ydp18624d53ydp2ae58166yiv2584137517gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Every time we have one of these I think to myself -- "we really need a better system". I'm a firm believer that a league like this must have a mechanism to overturn significantly imbalanced trades, given that the consequences of these deals are magnified enormously due to perpetual ownership of players. I understand that some will disagree, but let's table that for now and posit that if a protest mechanism is a necessary evil how could it work better?<br clear="none">
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The primary area of concern I see is the means by which a protest is registered:<br clear="none">
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1) Any protest system relies on a filtering mechanism by which the owners of the league look at a deal and make a determination about the level of imbalance. Additionally, some may decide that even though a trade is imbalanced that the parts that are moving are inconsequential enough that it does not merit a protest. We only require one team to register a protest, which means whoever has the lowest threshold is making the determination.<br clear="none">
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2) Another problem is that there's no downside to being the protesting team, so long as you don't particularly care if you're irritating the two owners who made the deal. The protesting team doesn't pay any price if their filter for imbalanced trades is lower than the consensus.<br clear="none">
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3) Finally, once one team triggers a protest the other teams that also believed the trade to be imbalanced tend to tune out. Therefore it is never clear to either the trading teams or the Review Board whether there's a widespread consensus that the trade is imbalanced.<br clear="none">
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Idea for an improvement, addressing the above:<br clear="none">
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Require teams to post collateral in order to protest. Lower the amount of collateral required per-team as more teams join the protest. If the protest is upheld the protesting team(s) get back their collateral, if the trade is upheld they lose the collateral.<br clear="none">
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example:<br clear="none">
if 1 team protests a deal they must put up a 2nd round pick<br clear="none">
if 2 teams protest a deal they must each put up a 3rd round pick<br clear="none">
if 3 teams protest a deal they must each put up a 4rd round pick<br clear="none">
if 4 teams protest a deal they must each put up a 5rd round pick<br clear="none">
etc.<br clear="none">
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If a team does not have the required round pick they can post a pick one round earlier in the following draft (e.g. if I don't have MCM#2 2018 I can substitute MCM#1 2019)<br clear="none">
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What does this do? It puts the burden on the owner with the lowest threshold to find other people who are in agreement. It should also establish a significance level for trade protests, as nobody is going to want to risk losing picks of higher value than the players/picks actually involved in the trade. Finally, this system encourages consensus and I believe the resolution process would be much less painful if both the trading teams and the Review Board knew that a large number of people were in agreement.<br clear="none">
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I'm sure there are other issues with the protest system that could be improved, this just jumped out at me as a re-alignment of incentives that would be a big improvement.<span class="m_3596030000734492309yiv1256607250ydp18624d53ydp2ae58166yiv2584137517HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br clear="none">
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Sean<br clear="none">
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